Tag Archives: commercial real estate

Commercial Real Estate Advice That You Can Use!

Buying a commercial property is totally different than buying a house, so don’t treat them as identical transactions. This article will provide some ideas to help you establish your bearings in the world of commercial real estate.

Make sure you always remain cool, calm, and collected when you begin to look for commercial real estate. Don’t enter into any investment opportunity without doing the proper amount of research. A poorly thought out investment might soon give you many regrets. Be prepared to wait as much as a year for a suitable property to come available in your area.

Purchasing commercial properties is more time-consuming and complex compared to the purchase of a home. Know that the duration and intensity is essential to getting a higher return on the investment you made.

Initially, your investment will take up a great deal of your time. Hunting for the opportune property will take time and effort, and even after you have purchased it, upgrades and reconditioning might be necessary. You should never give up because it is time consuming. Your patience will eventually be rewarded through profits.

The area in which the property is located is important. If you are looking in a high-rent neighborhood, you may have a better chance at success once you get going because of the potential of area residents to have money to spend. However, if your products or services correspond to a specific social category, make sure you find a property in an area that corresponds to your target audience.

A letter of intent should be kept simple by focusing on larger issues and leaving smaller issues to negotiate later. The negotiations will become less tense and you will be able to better get an agreement on the more small problems.

Have an understanding on what exactly it is you are looking for when it comes to commercial real estate. Write down the features of a piece of property that are the most essential to you, such as how many square feet it must be and the number of specific rooms it should have, including conference rooms, offices, and restrooms.

If commercial property is something you’re thinking about investing your time and money in, take the tax advantages under consideration. Not only are there interest deductions, but also depreciation benefits to be aware of. However, investors sometimes receive “phantom income”, which is income that is taxed, but not received as cash. You need to know this kind of income prior to investing.

It should now be apparent that you need to consider any commercial real estate transaction from multiple angles. Be certain that you apply the advice from the preceding paragraphs to get fair deals that meet your needs and expectations of the property you deal with.

Making Money In Commercial Real Estate

Commercial real estate is accessible to anyone. However, there are some things you need to know before you jump into the market. The following advice will educate you in the ways of commercial real estate, so you can maximize your opportunities.

If you are trying to choose between two desirable commercial purchases, the larger one may be the better choice. Regardless of whether the property you decide on has twenty units or fifty, the process of obtaining financing will be the same, and in both cases will require substantial effort. In effect, this is similar to an economy of scale, or also like purchasing more of an item to save money.

When selecting a broker, find out the amount of experience they have with the commercial market. Make sure they have their own expertise in the area of your curiosity or it could be an endeavor wasted. Entering into an exclusive contract with that particular broker is a good idea.

Commercial rental buildings should feature sturdy construction and simple details. Tenants are more likely to move in when they know the property is well taken care of. Buildings like these are also easier to maintain, for both owners and tenants, since repairs are going to be required less frequently.

Strive to keep your commercial properties occupied at all times if you choose to rent them to tenants. If there is still open space, it will be incumbent upon you to pay for maintenance. If you have several properties open, you should ask yourself why, and attempt to correct the issues that may be driving out your tenants.

Check a commercial property for access to electricity and other utilities; make sure there is good access. Every business has unique requirements, but for most, electric, water and sewer access will be required.

Aim to avoid default before you sign a real estate lease. If you cover all the applicable issues, then you make it far less likely that potential tenants will default on their lease. You do not want this to happen to you.

Always have an inspector look over your commercial property before you put it out on the market. If they flag issues that need to be fixed, repair them before you list the property for sale.

Go on a tour of all potential properties. It’s a good idea to hire a building contractor to come with you and do on-the-spot inspections of properties you are considering. Make the preliminary proposals, and open the negotiating table. Carefully look over any counteroffers you receive before you make your final choice, whatever that may be.

Smaller Issues

Keep your focus on the largest issues when writing your letters of intent. Keep it simple and save the smaller issues for later in the negations. You can make all your negotiations less tense, so you can agree on any of the smaller issues first.

You should acquire tour site checklists when you’re examining several properties. Get the responses from the first round of proposals, but make sure the property owners are aware of this before proceeding. Do not fear letting the owners know that you are interested in other properties. It could even get you a good deal.

You may have to make some repairs or improvements to your property before you can move in. This might include superficial improvements such as repainting a wall or arranging the furniture more efficiently. Many times, changes include reconfiguring the floor plan by moving walls. Negotiate payment for these improvements ahead of time, and attempt to have the landlord pay at least part of the costs.

Real Estate

When hiring a real estate agent, read the disclosures completely before signing a contract with a realtor. Dual agency is a possibility that you need to be aware of. In this type of transaction, a real estate agency acts on behalf of both parties involved in the deal. In the case of a rental situation, the agency represents the landlord and the tenant. You and the other party should both agree if dual agency is to be okay.

Again, you can’t invest in commercial real estate until you have done some research and learned about the process. The purpose of the article was to give you information to help you on your quest for success with commercial real estate.

Answers To Your Urgent Questions About Commercial Real Estate

It is not as hard as you think it is to get started in commercial real estate. You should be sure to research your options before making a move. This article was written to help you learn the tricks of the trade and to help you make the most of your experience.

Regardless of whether you are buying or selling the property, it is in your best interest to negotiate. Make sure that you are heard and that you fight for a fair price for the property.

Websites with abundant real estate investment information are worthwhile references for novices and experienced investors. There is no such thing as having too much knowledge, so it is always a good idea to learn as much as you can.

Commercial Property

When purchasing any type of commercial property, pay close attention to the location of the real estate. Neighborhood is important, even when you are looking at commercial property. Check out the growth, both economically and physically, in the areas you’re considering. You want to make sure that in 5 or 10 years down the road, the area is still a descent and growing area.

Research and learn more about the Net Operating Income, a commonly used metric for commercial real estate. You need to keep your numbers positive if you are going to be successful.

Check a commercial property for access to electricity and other utilities; make sure there is good access. Your business has utility needs of its own, but you will also need water, electric, sewer and maybe even gas.

Advertising your property to parties locally and abroad is important to ensure you get the best price possible. Many people think that investors who don’t live in their city will have no interest in their property, but this is untrue. Private investors will purchase properties outside of their area if the prices are low enough.

Make sure you know exactly what requirements you need to satisfy before you begin your search for commercial real estate. List all of the features that are necessary for your operations, such as the overall size requirements for your rooms and amount of restrooms required.

It’s critical to have emergency maintenance contact information very accessible. Find out from the landlord who you should call if the worst happens, and you need immediate repairs. Learn the phone numbers and response times. Develop an emergency plan for those times when disruption in your services occurs. This advance planning can save your business reputation if an emergency strikes.

A variety of kinds of commercial property real estate brokers exist. For example, full-service brokers represent both the landlord and tenants. There are also tenant brokers that work exclusively for the tenants. Consider hiring a tenant-only broker as he’ll have the most experience in dealing with situations such as yours.

Investors Receive

Consider any tax benefits you’ll receive through a commercial real estate investment. Investors receive depreciation benefits as well as interest deductions. Yet sometimes investors receive what is called “phantom income”, and this is income which is taxed but isn’t received as cash. You should be mindful of phantom income prior to investing.

You should consult with a tax expert prior to purchasing anything. This specialist can advise you on the building costs of any project you may be considering. He or she can also determine your taxable income. An adviser could even help you find an area with lower taxes.

The beginning of the article warned you that commercial real estate is nothing something you should go into without the proper information. Hopefully this article has helped prepare you for your commercial real estate venture.

Strategies For Investing In The Commercial Real Estate Markets

Now that you think you are ready to dive into the world of commercial real estate, it is important to open your mind to everything it takes to be a success. You may not be sure how to begin or may have questions about the process. Below are a collection of tips and ideas that should help you to begin a commercial real estate market venture.

You should negotiate if you are the seller or the buyer. Ensure that your voice is heard, and that you are offering-or receiving-a price that is fair for both parties.

To prepare for any sizable investment in commercial real estate, investigate indicators of fiscal health around the property in question, such as average income levels for nearby residents, rates of employment and unemployment, and whether jobs in the area are rising or falling. Your house will sell more quickly and at a higher value if it is near a university, hospital or any large employment center.

If you are new to investing in real estate, spend some time surfing online resources that house information that seasoned investors use. There is no such thing as having too much knowledge, so it is always a good idea to learn as much as you can.

You may find that you spend a large amount of time at first on your investment. The time aspect of the investment includes finding the property and making any repairs to the property. Don’t abandon your investments because they are eating into your personal time. You will reap the rewards in the near future.

You should thoroughly look into the brokers that you are considering, and determine their level of expertise and experience when dealing with commercial real estate. Make certain that they have experience and expertise in the community you are dealing in. Then if they meet the criteria you are looking for, you can agree to work with that broker exclusively.

Get the credentials of any person who will be doing an inspection on a property you are trying to buy. This should be especially noted for those who work in pest removal since there are actually a number of non-licensed people who work in this area. A non-accredited inspector could be a source of problems.

Make sure that the commercial property has access to all utilities needed. In addition to any needs specific to the business, you will surely need to have gas, electricity, sewer and water services, and so on.

Before you enter into any negotiations for a lease on commercial real estate, attempt to decrease anything that may be thought of as a default event. The less behaviors you have that constitute default, the less likely it is that you’ll have to deal with a tenant’s default. That is not a situation you would want to encounter.

Take a look around properties you are interested in. Think also about having a professional contractor tag along aside you when you look over these properties. Decide on an initial offer and start negotiations. Closely review any counteroffers you receive prior to making a final decision. Remember the decision is an important one, so take your time.

When you are constructing a letter of intent, make sure that you keep it concise by focusing on larger issues first. Save the smaller issues for future negotiations. This lets you get the bigger issues out of the way first and makes small issues simpler to complete.

It’s likely that the property you buy will need some repairs and work before you move in. This might include superficial improvements such as repainting a wall or arranging the furniture more efficiently. Oftentimes, moving walls and other fixtures is required to redistribute the floorplan. Negotiate in advance who pays for these improvements or try to get the landlord to pay for at least a portion of the costs.

Commercial Real Estate

Now, you will now be more prepared when you are dealing with commercial real estate. If you had considered yourself knowledgeable before, you known even more now. The hints and tips you’ve been given should assist you in making informed and successful decisions, regarding commercial real estate.

Read This Crucial Information About Commercial Real Estate

Commercial real estate can be difficult and time consuming. However, you can be highly rewarded in the end, despite the costs. In order to succeed, use what you learn from this article.

A good starting point for people looking to purchase real estate is to go online and scour the treasure trove of beneficial information that can help new investors, as well as seasoned professionals. There is no such thing as having too much knowledge, so it is always a good idea to learn as much as you can.

Commercial property is an investment. This investment is not just money, but also time. It will take time to find an opportunity that is profitable, and afterwards, you may have to wait for repairs and remodeling before you can start monetizing your investment. Do not let the lengthy nature of the process discourage you. The rewards will show themselves later.

Make sure that you know and understand what “NOI” (Net Operating Income) is. For the investment to be profitable, it has to produce more income than operating expenses.

Make sure your asking price is realistic. Many things alter the value of your property./

Be careful to choose commercial properties that are solidly and simply constructed if you plan to use them as rental properties. Tenants will be eager to fill these spaces because it will be clear that they are well-maintained. Not are the buildings more sturdy, there will be less maintenance issues for the owner and the tenant.

Commercial Property

Keep your commercial property occupied to pay the bills between tenants. Maintenance and upkeep costs for commercial property can be substantial and rental income is essential for paying those costs. If you have multiple properties open, figure out why, and try to correct the issue that could be causing a loss of tenants.

You should examine the surrounding neighborhood of any commercial real estate you may be interested in. Expensive, luxury-oriented businesses will thrive in more affluent neighborhoods. You might want to buy a property in a less affluent neighborhood if you are selling products or services that less affluent people would find attractive.

Have property professionally inspected before you decide to put it up for sale. If there is anything wrong with your property, have it fixed right away.

Local Buyers

When you are selling a commercial property, always make sure to include all buyers; this includes local and non-local buyers. A lot of sellers fall into the misconception that only the local buyers are interested parties in potential purchase. There are many private investors who would purchase property outside of their local area if the price is right.

As the above article stated, purchasing commercial real estate can be extremely rewarding when it comes to making a profit. You will be able to avoid common mistakes and make good decisions if you apply these tips.

What To Look For When Purchasing Commercial Real Estate

Commercial real estate transactions have many unique characteristics. The article below details some tips you should keep in mind when shopping for commercial real estate.

Regardless of which side of the negotiations you’re on, learn to haggle. Both the buyer and seller should attempt to negotiate a fair price rather than accepting the other’s first offer. Be certain your needs are met, your concerns are heard, and you champion a fair, honest price for the real estate.

There are many factors to consider as you view available properties. For example, you should take note of statistics regarding local employers, workforce availability and the accessibility of skilled labor. Think about what locations are near where you are thinking of buying. Hot spots are usually around places like hospitals or universities because the surrounding neighborhood is going to be more lively and open with jobs available.

Real Estate

Websites with abundant real estate investment information are worthwhile references for novices and experienced investors. Learning more about real estate will always benefit you, and you can never learn enough.

The location of your commercial property is key to its value and its potential suitability for what you have in mind. Take the neighborhood of the property into consideration. Look at the growth in similar areas. This research will help you figure out how the neighborhood you’re considering buying commercial property in is likely to grow and change over the next several years. If you aren’t comfortable with the potential growth rate or the atmosphere of the neighborhood, purchase property elsewhere.

Purchasing commercial real estate is a much more lengthy and complicated process than that of buying a home. The added time and effort are crucial, however, to getting the return that you want on your investment.

When interviewing potential brokers, ask them to tell you about their experience level with the type of commercial investments you are interested in. Be sure that they specialize in the area that you are buying or selling in. Sign an exclusive agreement once you’ve found a broker you want to work with.

You need to make sure that the price you are asking for your real estate is a realistic price. There are a variety of different factors that go into determining a property’s value.

Ask for the credentials of any professional you’re planning to hire as an inspector, and ensure they are experienced in commercial real estate. Those who work in pest removal should be inspected closely, as they are often not accredited. Ultimately, this can help you to bypass larger, more expensive problems.

Try to decrease potential events of defaults before negotiating a lease. The tenant will then be less likely to violate these terms. You don’t want tenants defaulting on your leases.

Commercial Real Estate

As you might imagine, there are a multitude of considerations, when you are contemplating an investment in commercial real estate. Hopefully after reading this article, you have learned everything you need to know about commercial real estate.

Advice About Buying Or Selling Commercial Real Estate

Commercial property is not something to go into half-cocked. It can make you big profits, but it may also be financially devastating. Try to choose wisely when considering purchasing a property, and thinking about how to fund it. This article can help you with your property matters.

Look at the neighborhood you’re thinking about investing into, you want to check things like unemployments rates, income levels, and different rates of expansion so that you have an idea of where the neighborhood stands, and what potential it has in the future. Properties centrally located near universities and hospitals will have a consistently higher value, and it will sell more quickly.

For those who have an interest in real estate, reference websites that offer information to a investors of all experience levels. It is wise to learn all you can, as it is impossible to know too much.

When you are picking a broker, make sure you know if they are experienced within the commercial real estate market. Make sure that they are experts in the area in which you are selling or buying. You and this broker should enter into an agreement that is exclusive.

Real estate deals must include inspections, so check the credentials of the inspector. There are more than a few people working in without certification in the pest removal and insect fields, so make especially certain to ask for proof of certification from them. Ultimately, this can help you to bypass larger, more expensive problems.

Ensure there is adequate access to utilities on the commercial property. Your business is sure to have unique utility requirements, but services typically required by most include sewage, water, power, telecommunications and maybe even natural gas.

Less Wealthy

When buying commercial property, think about the socioeconomic status of the neighborhood around the building. Your business might do better in affluent communities, since your prospective foot traffic has more money. However, if you’re offering services that less wealthy people may be more interested in, you probably want to purchase property in a less wealthy area.

Advertise your commercial real estate far and wide. Many sellers mistakenly presume that their property will appeal only to local buyers. There are many investors who are interested in financing properties which are outside their area as long as they are a great deal.

When you are composing a letter of intent, you should emphasize simplicity by negotiating on the bigger issues first, then addressing the minor issues later in the negotiations. The negotiations will go much better and be less stressful if you keep the small stuff out of the way and can focus on the larger issues first.

Before you can start using the property you’ve purchased, you might need to make some improvements. It may be cosmetic changes like rearranging the furniture or painting the wall. Many times, changes include reconfiguring the floor plan by moving walls. Talk to your landlord about these improvements. Try to negotiate a deal where the landlord pays for some, if not all, of the cost of improving your space prior to moving in.

Commercial real estate agents come in different types. Agents that work with tenants and landlords both are called full service brokers. There are also agents that only represent tenants. If you are a tenant, you may be much better off by using a broker who only works with tenants as they have a lot more experience with successful tenant representation.

As mentioned in this article, investing in commercial real estate takes work and should not be considered free money. You need to pour in time, effort, and a large initial investment, in order to make sure it succeeds. There’s no guarantee of success, either; you can do everything correctly and still lose money.

The Pros And Cons Of Renting Commercial Property

Numerous individuals have achieved success with commercial real estate ventures. Success in real estate is not an exact science. It takes diligent research, experience, and elbow grease to succeed in this arena. Read the advice provided in this article to find out how you can be successful with commercial real estate.

Look at the neighborhood you’re thinking about investing into, you want to check things like unemployments rates, income levels, and different rates of expansion so that you have an idea of where the neighborhood stands, and what potential it has in the future. Properties that are near major employment centers, such as medical centers or universities, often sell more quickly and at a higher price.

Use detailed photos to create this documentation. Ensure that the photos document any problems, including mold, damaged walls, or chipped fixtures.

There are many informational websites available that aim to provide new and seasoned real estate investors with the necessary information. Having a great base of knowledge will give you the tools to complete every part of the buying process with confidence, leading to solid decision making.

Location is just as important with commercial real estate as it is with residential properties. Consider how the neighborhood will affect business. Also look into growth of similar areas. Since you will likely still own the property in ten years, you want it to be located in an area that is likewise still desirable in ten years.

Make sure your asking price is realistic. There are a lot of factors that determine the value of the lot.

If you are negotiating a commercial lease, make sure nothing can be considered as events of default. The tenant will then be less likely to violate these terms. You don’t need this to happen.

Conduct tours of potential properties. Think also about having a professional contractor tag along aside you when you look over these properties. You can then make an initial offer and begin the bargaining phase. Don’t decide on anything without careful consideration.

Using a checklist is useful when you have multiple properties that you are considering. Take the first round proposal responses, but do not go any further than that without letting the property owners know. Do not be scared to let the owners know about other properties you have in mind. It might lead to a better deal.

Emergency Maintenance

Put a high priority on emergency maintenance needs. Get a list of emergency maintenance contacts from your landlord. Keep the contact numbers handy, and ask them in advance what their response time is. Use any information you can get from your landlord so contingencies are ready for the times your normal business operations are interrupted so you can safeguard your customer service and your reputation.

Itis customary for the borrower to arrange for the appraisal on a commercial loan. You’re not going to be allowed to use this later by the bank. Protect yourself from this problem and get the appraisal done on your own dime.

Research the company and find out if they care about their customers’ best interests before you commit to working with them. If you don’t, you might wind up suffering over the long haul for an otherwise preventable error.

There are some ways you can save money on repair costs for property cleanup. If you possess an ownership interest, you may not be fully responsible for cleanup costs. The amounts for cleaning up the environment and the disposal of waste can cost you a fortune. To help avoid these costs, consider obtaining an environmental report for the property. Such reports can be expensive, but they are worth it in the long run.`

While success is never guaranteed in any real estate venture, with the right knowledge you can greatly enhance your chances of success when buying and managing commercial properties. Keep this information in mind and apply it to your business. Keep your finger to the pulse of the latest news in the industry so that you can continually improve. With experience you will be more successful.

Confused By The Commercial Real Estate Market? Read This Advice!

There are always industrial and commercial properties, but these types of properties do not receive preferential listings that are given to residential property. This market requires a different set of skills in order to be successful, and with the following tips, you will be able to navigate it properly.

You should expect your commercial real estate investment to require a significant time commitment. It takes time to find a lucrative opportunity and purchase a propriety, adding to that time to carry out any repairs and alterations that are needed. Do not give up because this process takes too much of your time. Once you get the property ready, you will be compensated for years to come.

Double-check that you are seeking a realistic amount of money for your property. Market conditions can vary greatly; therefore, an appraisal may not be the best indicator of true market value.

Make sure that the commercial property has access to all utilities needed. You will need access to electricity, water, sewer and maybe gas in addition to any unique need that your business has.

When you are looking at a commercial property, be sure to look at the neighborhood, too. If you are looking in a high-rent neighborhood, you may have a better chance at success once you get going because of the potential of area residents to have money to spend. On the other hand, if you are going to offer a product or service more popular with working class individuals, a less affluent neighborhood might be a better choice.

If you are thinking of selling a commercial property, your experience will be much smoother if you utilize the services of a professional and have it properly inspected. Fix all problems that they find as soon as possible.

Take a tour of properties you are considering. Definitely consider having a professional contractor go with you when looking at potential properties. You can then make an initial offer and begin the bargaining phase. Evaluate counteroffers against the information you collected on your tours, and use that information to justify your own counteroffers.

Get a site checklist if you are viewing more than one property. After you collect your first proposals from all the property owners, let them all know that you’re looking at other properties before you make your decision. Don’t be shy about telling the owners that you are thinking about purchasing another property. This could help you score a better deal.

Dual Agency

Before hiring any real estate broker, read all of his disclosures. Dual agency is a possibility that you need to be aware of. Dual agency refers to a situation in which a real estate agent represents both the landlord and the tenant in a commercial transaction. The real estate agency will represent both the seller and the buyer. If there is a dual agency, everyone should be honest about it and find an agreement.

The borrower needs to order an appraisal for a commercial loan. Your bank will refuse the appraisal if you try to submit it. Be properly prepared by ordering the appraisal directly.

Speak to a tax adviser prior to buying a property. A tax adviser can tell you what your tax liabilities are on the purchase and future income from it. Work closely with your lawyer to find a place where you can buy property and your taxes will cost less.

Finding the appropriate kind of commercial property is only the first half of your work here. Gaining even a little bit of knowledge about commercial real estate helps you make better decisions.

Expert Ideas In Bringing In More Sales In Commercial Real Estate

Buying commercial properties can be a dichotomy. It can bring you huge profits, but it can also take away that profit away from you. You need to choose wisely about what property to buy and how to get the funds to do so. The article below guides you through what you should know before embarking on any commercial real estate venture.

To prepare for any sizable investment in commercial real estate, investigate indicators of fiscal health around the property in question, such as average income levels for nearby residents, rates of employment and unemployment, and whether jobs in the area are rising or falling. Properties near hospitals, universities or other centers of large numbers of employees tend to sell faster and at higher-than-average values.

Real Estate

If you want to learn a lot about real estate, check out several websites that offer a lot of information to both experienced and new real estate investors. It is wise to learn all you can, as it is impossible to know too much.

Your investment may require substantial amounts of your individual time and attention in the beginning. Finding a good opportunity, going through the transaction and making any necessary repairs to the property takes time. However, don’t give up just because this will take time. The investment will be repaid as time goes on.

Make sure the property you are interested in has access to utilities. Your business has utility needs of its own, but you will also need water, electric, sewer and maybe even gas.

You might need to make improvements to your new space before you can use it. These changes could simply be cosmetic ones as simple as a new coat of paint or moving the furniture around. However, you might have to remove or relocate some of your walls so that you can get the most out of your space. You should pre-negotiate the cost of these alterations with the landlord, and try to get them to contribute towards at least part of them.

Put a high priority on emergency maintenance needs. Inquire with your landlord about who handles the emergency repairs in the space you rent. Have the phone numbers on speed dial, and know how long it generally takes stuff to get fixed. Take advantage of this information to devise a contingency plan in order to prevent and respond to customer complaints resulting from maintenance issues.

Real Estate

Know that there are many different kinds of brokers when it comes to commercial real estate. Real estate agents will work with landlords and tenants, but there are also some that only work with tenants. It might be most beneficial for you to hire a broker who works exclusively with tenants. A broker with that focus will be more experienced in successful dealings with tenants.

If you’re new to investing, don’t focus on more than one kind of investment at the same time. Pick out a single property type that you would enjoy starting with and only pay attention to it. You can be more successful when you’re good at one type as opposed to just average at different types.

There are many tax benefits available for commercial investors. Investors receive interest deductions on top of depreciation benefits. There is also “phantom income”, which is taxed by the government although not received by the investor as cash. Before you make any investments, be sure you are aware of this kind of investing.

As mentioned, commercial real estate isn’t a money tree. You need to put in a tremendous effort, which involves a big initial investment and a lot of time, to give yourself the best chance of success. Sometimes even when you do everything right you still lose money.